SDC Talk!
SDC Talk!
Home | Profile | Active Topics | Members | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 General Discussion
 General Discussion
 Selling Dogs: Truth in Advertising & Ratings
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Previous Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 2

sublunar

828 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2007 :  2:25:30 PM  Show Profile  Visit sublunar's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Worst dog I ever bought was from one of the most succesful kennels in their discipline. It was years ago and I still hold a grudge. Probably always will. At the same time, I didn't pay a lot of money: It was the last time I ever bought without running the dog, and it as the last time I ever bought cheap.

As a seller, I feel like buyers are often expecting something unreasonable. One of the most common questions I'm asked is "Can I win this race with this dog?" and there's no way I can honestly answer that. A person could buy the best dog in the world and still not win their local race if the team and the training weren't up to par. I have a dog in my string that has run in winning Rondy and North American teams and it doesn't mean I'm out dominating the sprints. Far from it.

Alot of the time, I feel like I miss out on sales, because I'm often only willing to describe what the dog is doing, and not guess at what they could do. "Is this dog, who's ran one kind of race its whole life, able to do to something completely different?" is another question. I don't know.

More than once, I've directed a buyer to a kennel closer to home, because I'd rather not have a dog across the country when it turns out it isn't working out.

My favorite transactions have involved puppies, where both parties understand there's a gamble involved, or older dogs, that could be bought and sold on the basis of their race record.

I'm in no way defending the bad business practices Joca is talking about. I feel the dogs are going to be best off in a place where they are stars, and my goal, as a seller, is always to better the buyers dog team. But I feel like buyers often ask for too much, and then turn away when they aren't promised it. It doesn't surprise me that some folks are tempted to sell their dogs as more than they are.
Go to Top of Page

sublunar

828 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2007 :  2:28:12 PM  Show Profile  Visit sublunar's Homepage  Reply with Quote
One other thing. The quality dogs I've bought have always shined in the team, from day one. Maybe there are dogs that take a year to get adjusted, but the best go right out there and work.
Go to Top of Page

pcurtice

USA
454 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2007 :  4:00:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Cliff, I know I stated "welcome to the world of sleddogs" but not meant in the context you stated. I would in no way ever defend the selling of a misrepresented sleddog, nor would I condone Joca's misfortune with those purchases. I will defend to a point any dog that served on a competitive team, is healthy, and still has the tools to do what the purchaser is asking. I will still take that dog back as that dog just plain and simply doesn't belong in that kennel. But there is a reality to this sport, and certain truths, and we are discussing it, unfortunately it is one of the negative sides of it. I can guarantee you that most competitive mushers at one time or another have bought a sound dog for a more than reasonable price and were dissatisfied with it and naturally they would say it was misrepresented. Some, as I have done in the past, voiced their concern in the wrong manner, and still treated great by the seller of that dog. Maybe I should have stated "welcome to the world of sleddogs, seller and buyer beware, so do your homework". Cliff, this sport isn't perfect, as I am sure you are aware of. I will even go out on a limb and say it will never be perfect, call me a pessimist if you wish. I call it a reality check and everyone has to be conscientious of who they buy dogs from and who they sell them to. Maybe, if we all are more conscientious then those sellers of misrepresented dogs that won't take them back will just fade off, and one of our negative sides to this sport will fade off also. I still don't believe a rating system as is discussed on this forum is in the best interest of our sport. When folks have been wronged whether intentionally or not, there's a better chance that all objectivity goes out the window, especially when it is being done on a computer screen. It's interesting how one can be more courageous in bad mouthing another person when one isn't facing that person. It's just human nature. Unfortunately I have been there and hopefully I have learned from it. So don't piss me off!!!! Just joking, hopefully my last thread for awhile, have a race to get ready for.

Peter C. Curtice II
Ridgerunner Kennel
Go to Top of Page

Gealach Mor

USA
133 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2007 :  10:56:59 AM  Show Profile  Visit Gealach Mor's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I have purchased several dogs over the last few years. For us, being 3000+ miles away from the majority of the kennels, means we have to take maybe some other factors into consideration as well.
I knew the guys we initially bought from, we visited them and asked lots of questions. They were also very helpful and honest about the dogs they were selling. (oh yeah, and a big help too - willing to hold the dog for 6 months to do its Pet Passport)

I actually approached Pete about a dog and he was good enough to be honest and upfront about it.

Like others have said here, I think as a buyer, you need to be sure of the sellers. It is usually in the seller's own best interests to be open and honest, if they want repeat business.


www.gealachmor.com
working sleddogs - just for the love of it.

Go to Top of Page

Jen

USA
319 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2007 :  4:33:31 PM  Show Profile  Visit Jen's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Jo and everyone,

I know dog racing is a whole other world but I always wondered about the health issues given no advertised clearances. Maybe I'm just a snob coming from the purebred world but I gotta ask...why aren't these dogs at least being OFA'd (or equivalent) given what they do??? My doG, the majority of show dogs who do nothing more stressful than prance around the ring get hip x-rays before they are bred. I wouldn't even THINK about breeding a dog without a hip xray even though my dogs came from OFA Good or better ratings just because it's shown to be important to do each dog and most breed clubs list it in their Code of Ethics. Jo has been a respected breeder in Mals for many years and probably knows the importance of x-raying hips. I understand some people stand by the performance testing but dogs will push themselves beyond what they *should* do and it can take a while for these problems to show up. Hip x-rays are really not that expensive, it's in the best interest of your team, your breeding prgram, and your individual dogs. They shouldn't be asked to run in pain like that, it's unfair.

And dogs who can't be handled? Wow, I would be really pi$$ed, too. I've gone and 'dognapped' (with their permission) other people's malamutes and taken them and pull trained them and never ran into a dog who wanted to bite me. I know alaskans have a reputation for being more high strung but how useful can a dog really be if you can't handle it to get it harnessed?

It would be nice to have some sort of rating system if it could be done without making Judy do more. Peer pressure can really help shape up a breeder's act.

Jen

Powderhound Alaskan Malamutes
See them at:
www.powderhoundmals.com
Go to Top of Page

Seal

USA
174 Posts

Posted - 02/22/2007 :  06:52:23 AM  Show Profile  Visit Seal's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I love the idea of having feedback provided for dog sellers. I don't care if I spend $50 or $1500 for a dog...the key is did I get what the seller said I would and did they stand by the verbal agreement that we had. Sure it would be nice to have feedback for sales of other things but the dogs are what matter. If sellers are held publically responsible for the "quality" - rec or pro - of the animals they are selling, and the honesty of their interactions....it will only enhance our sport. I've sold my share of dogs and I am ALL for it.

Christine

Edited by - Seal on 02/22/2007 06:53:04 AM
Go to Top of Page

HRE

Canada
123 Posts

Posted - 02/22/2007 :  11:48:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have had some bad experiences buying dogs, and I have also had some bad experiences selling dogs.
A few years ago a musher from my area came to my kennel looking for a leader. He had only been mushing for about one year and he was having difficult time running his team because his leaders didn't take commands. I had a command leader that I was willing to part with. I let him take the dog on a trial basis (one week) then he was to pay for the dog or return him in good health. I had been running this dog 15 miles, and I explained that was his limit and that he was not to run him any further than 15 miles until he was paid for. He was also was not to breed the dog! The following weekend the musher came back to return the dog. He said that the dog had worked very well and that now one of his dogs was taking commands so he didn't need him. He had made 3 thirty mile runs with him and had bred two females with him.
My dog came back with a hernia that required an emergency operation to save his life. The buyer refused to pay for the vet bill, breeding fee and the dog.
If we are setting up rating system for sellers we should also have a rating system for buyers.

Harris English
Go to Top of Page

shore

USA
414 Posts

Posted - 02/22/2007 :  12:07:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree in theory with all of this, but I can't imagine how to distinguish between cranks and people with legitimate gripes, or how to avoid eBay-ish ratings inflation (people know that other people check ratings and try to keep their own ratings high by never complaining, etc.). Every once in awhile you hear about someone who appeared to be perfectly reasonable being busted for animal abuse or taking a private dispute public in a really ugly way, and so on.

I like the idea, I'm just not sure how to do it without it turning into a sewer.
Go to Top of Page

Daisy Acres

USA
112 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2007 :  03:48:46 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In the horse world, a mandatory vet check is included in the bill of sale and if the horse doesn't pass the vet inspection, the deal is off. (Same goes with buying a house, right? DEC inspections, title searches and the like.)

In the AKC world (lousy example for most everything!) they have foundations and such for OFA certification and hip x-rays and eye history, etc. etc. etc.

Thyroid issues are a pretty common problem in sled dogs. Many people don't even check. The meds to treat it are pretty cheap (pennies a day) but it is a pain in the arse to administer twice daily in proper doses for various dogs throughout the yard.

By the way, you can buy a dog cheap, treat it for a thyroid deficiency and have a whole new dog that will knock the socks off your team!

I don't think the price of the dog should matter at all. I rehome rescue dogs at $100 each and I strive really hard to tell the potential adopter absolutely everything bad (and good) about the dog before I let the deal go through.

I also offer a lifetime take-back option...I really don't need or want 150 dogs back (that's about how many I've placed in the past five or six years.) Although I'd love to have a few of them back So I try to place the dogs where they are going to work out and I work to support the new owner with follow-up information and options for training or whatever.

You could try a rating system, but I think you'll find that there are those who will over-use the system and skew the results. I believe in Karma. What goes around comes around...and maybe that's why some people are foisting sub-standard dogs off on others...or, maybe they don't actually realize it IS a sub-standard dog. Maybe it doesn't matter, because with karma, they've got their own stuff to deal with and I need to just keep my own plate clean so that I don't!

What have you learned from your dog today?
Go to Top of Page

Jason M

USA
390 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2007 :  3:01:37 PM  Show Profile  Visit Jason M's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by HRE

I have had some bad experiences buying dogs, and I have also had some bad experiences selling dogs.
A few years ago a musher from my area came to my kennel looking for a leader. He had only been mushing for about one year and he was having difficult time running his team because his leaders didn't take commands. I had a command leader that I was willing to part with. I let him take the dog on a trial basis (one week) then he was to pay for the dog or return him in good health. I had been running this dog 15 miles, and I explained that was his limit and that he was not to run him any further than 15 miles until he was paid for. He was also was not to breed the dog! The following weekend the musher came back to return the dog. He said that the dog had worked very well and that now one of his dogs was taking commands so he didn't need him. He had made 3 thirty mile runs with him and had bred two females with him.
My dog came back with a hernia that required an emergency operation to save his life. The buyer refused to pay for the vet bill, breeding fee and the dog.
If we are setting up rating system for sellers we should also have a rating system for buyers.



Holy Smokes that is a horrible story. I am usually a turn the other cheek kinda guy. But I'd have a tough time handling this situation in a civil manner. That guy needs a milk bone put down his throat and a hungry dog shoved up his @$$!

Edited by - Jason M on 03/23/2007 3:06:29 PM
Go to Top of Page

Charok

USA
344 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2007 :  5:33:47 PM  Show Profile  Visit Charok's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Jason...I love that saying!! I hope I remember that at an appropriate time

Judy Carrick
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 2 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
SDC Talk! © Sled Dog Central Go To Top Of Page
Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.07