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David Lowry

USA
485 Posts

Posted - 04/20/2001 :  2:12:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've been reading Fread Bear's Field Notes and he mentions that his Yukon Territory outfitter, who lived there all his life, once had his dogs picketed outside a trapper cabin and wolves killed and ate the dogs.

To those who have run the trapline or been in remote areas, what are the risks of picketing dogs and leaving them for awhile? I can think of a number of things I'd like to do on a remote trip, where I'd like to leave the dogs behind for awhile: climb a peak, hunt, etc.

David Lowry

musherladi

USA
58 Posts

Posted - 04/20/2001 :  6:02:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
wolves must have been very hungry and trapper must have been gone a long time
or left just a couple of dogs behind. I'll have to check that out.. musherladi

Mush on all !!!
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OldMusher

USA
799 Posts

Posted - 04/20/2001 :  10:21:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hungry Schnauzers would kill and eat defenseless cock-a-poos if the situation presented itself. We have all been through this before, and it amuses me to go into it again, but IN MY OPINION and in the opinion of every court in which attempts to make "wolf-dogs" illegal have been tried, and DNA evidence has been evaluated by every known method....the conclusion is that wolves and dogs are the same species. the differences between a wolf and a basenji or a borzoi and a king Carles spaniel are minor, legally and scientifically insignificant and getting pretty tired to keep sticking too. Yes, carnivores will eat meat, if possible. No, a single wolf probably won't move in on a big kennel unless starvation has set in. But, wolves are smart, isn't your Border collie? when they see the tied dogs can't reach them, somebody is going to get it, hunger being what it is. Remember the Donner party? Noble humans eat each other if necessary....why would the noble canine be different. Leaving your dogs unattended for long periods isn't a good idea in Alaska, Minnesota, or Borneo. Let's don't.

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DH

USA
286 Posts

Posted - 04/20/2001 :  10:39:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm not sure what the risks are, but a couple of years ago a friend had wolves actually coming into their dog yard & stealing semi-grown (old enough to be tied out) pups from off the chain. They ended up sleeping in their car next to the dog yard all summer to protect their dogs. Although these people live away from town they are right on the road system so not completely cut off from civilization. The best thing to do would just be to check if there has been any problems in the area you're thinking of going to.

Dori
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Eska

USA
41 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2001 :  12:11:46 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Several times a winter, we have wolves move through, hang around about a week, pick off all the loose dogs, then gone. When they're around you'll see the tracks they follow my trails and actually seem to like to follow my dogs, but you never see them. I have heard lots of reliable stories about wolves comin in real close, but I have only saw 2 live wolves in the last 5 years close to the house, and feel lucky for that. Real smart. Native neighbors have horses and they turn them out during winter. They have lost a few over the years. About 4-5 years ago, they came home from shopping late on a saturday afternoon, drove down their lane to find wolves chasing their horses around, right nx to their house. Old wolf is an opportunist, but he ain't dumb. I was out on the innoko a few years back, never saw so much sign. People were callin yearlings in with rabbit squealers. I think I would make myself aware of the density numbers where I was at.

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David Lowry

USA
485 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2001 :  12:42:35 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
More specifically, three dogs would be picketed for up to six hours in the daytime or early morning in an area in or near the Idaho relocation.

Sounds like not a good idea.

Old Musher, you will be pleased to know that a recent issue of Science Magazine reported that the genetics community has its bowels in an uproar. A large faction is trying to overturn the archaic pre DNA phylogenetic (look-alike) classification system in favor of a clade based system (common ancestors). That of course puts dogs and wolves as kissin' cousins as many of us have suspected. The term 'species' does not play a role in the new system as far as I can tell. So if you want to impress others, say 'you fool, they're in the same clade by god!'

David Lowry

David Lowry

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OldMusher

USA
799 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2001 :  10:15:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
OldMusher, not being a scientist, has a tendency to enerringly choose the incorrect scientific terms (but spell them correctly). Let me clarify: If a Collie and a Clumber spanniel are both classified as dogs, Wolves are dogs. Once, when orating on this topic, an peeved science-type person pointed out that the comparison of Chimp DNA and Human DNA only differed by 1.5%. Well thanks for proving my point! Is a Wolf as different from a German Shepherd as Waldo the wonder chimp is from President Bush? Okay, bad example. Still....give it up, kids, they are the same. I want a Hyena.

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JM

USA
89 Posts

Posted - 04/22/2001 :  12:26:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
David
Been there, done this. Left dogs behind while snowshoeing ahead for half a day in heavy wolf country, etc.

Walk around the dog area several times to put down good scent (see pee in the corners as wolf does). You should be safe for that short a period of time.

Unless it's been a "hungry" winter in the area a bitch in season would be more of a concern than the other.

Severl times, on the trapline, I've had wolves run parallel with the team, perhaps a hundred feet off the trail, obviously satisfying some sort of curiosity. It spooked the dogs and was an eerie sensation but not at all threatening.

At line cabins and siwash camps I've occasionaly, at night, had them set up their own camp within a few hundred feet of the picket line and serenade a "lady" all night long. (Sort of an unforgettable experience).

I know people who've lost dogs and livestock to wolves..I never have and some of that, considering the circumstances, I could only attribute to luck. I've also, deliberately, never trapped or killed a wolf. I've never been that hungry and they never gave me a reason. Cheers..Joe

joe may
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John Wood

USA
353 Posts

Posted - 04/22/2001 :  12:45:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
JM, I was happy to see that others have had the same experience as I with wolves pacing the team. Five or six years ago while training on Chlupach's trails, I had a large black wolf running parallel to the team about 50 yards to the side and it paced us for about 1/2 mile or so. It was beautiful and made me wish that I could capture that easy moving lope. Like your experience, it never showed any aggressiveness and I considered myself fortunate for being able to be a part of that experience. I have also run into wolves somewhat frequently when training in the Nenana hills and they have gone about their business and have not bothered the dogyard. Interestingly enough, my kennel is on the outskirts of Anchorage and we have had wolves come right up to the perimeter fence to court one of the females that was in season. Having said all of this, I still have a dog in the kennel that I got from Clyde Mayo and the dog's father was eaten right off it's chain in fish camp. So, I guess that you can never totally predict a wild creature's behavior. It will do what it needs to do to survive. If the wolf is hungry or horny, your chances of running into a confrontation are increased but still minute. My experience shows that when threatened, wolves will flee rather than attack.

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JM

USA
89 Posts

Posted - 04/22/2001 :  1:06:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
John
At Manley one winter as I recall quite a few dogs were sniped off the edge of several dog yards.

It's indeed an education to see first hand the interaction between wolves and sled dogs when under way. It needs to be seen to be understood and even then it's difficult to describe. There's a beauty to it makes the hair sort of stand on end. The dog's ruffs are up, their ears are flat, and they seemed to me to try to become invisible by hunkering down lower even as they run.

I've always thought of wolves as "self employed" dogs..Joe

joe may
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John Wood

USA
353 Posts

Posted - 04/22/2001 :  6:14:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Joe,
You will get a kick out of this. In early January, I went up to Manley to train at Joee's and was using the Tofty road back to Fish Lake when I came up on a mutual acquaintance of ours on a snowmachine next to the trail. As I was passing, our friend yanked something off of the back of the snowmachine as I was passing and all of my dogs instantly and unanimously veered as far away from him as they could get. He had just trapped a wolverine and was holding it up to show me. The dogs, although they have been raised in city conditions, obviously knew the reputation of the wolverine and they did not want anything to do with it. After getting a little chuckle out of the situation, he and I untangled the mess and went about our business. Then he did the same thing to Linda who was training that day also and her dogs did the exact same thing. Your earlier comments about Manley reminded me of the incident and, yes, there are a lot of wolves in that Manley/Tanana area and plenty of stories of them coming into dogyards. Incidentally, just finished the house in Willow and will be moving the bulk of our kennel up there in the next several weeks. Drop on by for a cup of coffee when you are in the area. JOHN

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n/a

201 Posts

Posted - 06/06/2001 :  6:55:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A good friend of mine was running his pack of bear dogs in northern Wisconsin(Douglas County) about four years ago. His dogs had tracking collars on and he noticed one young female plot hound strangely heading away from the pack then the signal faded away. His partners saw three wolves cross the road and they found some of her hair and blood at the location where she separated from the pack. Another friend of mine(Burnett County Wi.) had to put down a Siberian female because her right hind leg was just about gone. DNR said it was done by a bear but I personally went out to check the area and there were no bear tracks but several wolf tracks. Like has already been mentioned "It's a wolf eat dog world out there".

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laughing husky

USA
40 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2007 :  3:30:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I know this is an old thread, but the subject arises again. Although I live on the outskirts of Anchorage, my team of 14 dogs were followed by a "lone" wolf last year for almost a mile. The other team that I was running behind had a couple of wolves criss cross in front of him. It was quite a sight to have a wolf follow you on an ATV. At first the wolf was in front of the team and stopped them dead....They hunkered down, ears flat....and not a sound although we were only 4 miles into a 25 mile run....so they were still hot to trot...then the wolf circled round the back, and I decided to get the heck out of Dodge, and it followed us for about a mile. We were running 17 MPH by speedometer and the wolf had a beautiful easy lope right in back....like 6-10' in back of me.
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rebelgtp

USA
49 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2007 :  3:49:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
hmmm that would make kind of a cool picture a team running and in the background a like numbered pack of wolves hmmm...

personally i've had a couple occasions where i have been camping and had a wolf wander into my camp. had one hang around my camp and follow me around for about a week once when camping. actually now that i think about it there hasn't been a time i have gone camping when something hasn't wandered into my camp. worst was raccoons coming in at night and my friends st bernard trying to get out of the tent to get them

Edited by - rebelgtp on 12/05/2007 3:51:29 PM
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SharkyX

Canada
681 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2007 :  12:04:51 PM  Show Profile  Visit SharkyX's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by laughing husky

We were running 17 MPH by speedometer and the wolf had a beautiful easy lope right in back....like 6-10' in back of me.


Wolves (Grey Wolf anyways) has a top speed of about 40mph and are apparently able to maintain this speed for a significant length of time in a chase (20 minutes or something like that)..
So yeah the 17mph would be a nice easy job for a wolf. Would have been really neat to watch though.
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grandma

United Kingdom
179 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2007 :  4:50:30 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
why dont people fence the dog yards?
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