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Cliff Maxfield
USA
2438 Posts |
 Posted - 11/28/2006 : 11:55:39 AM
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I tried to find the archived thread about firearms carried by Mushers with no luck.
Anyway here in Wiconsin we don't have a moose problem. Also I like to stay with in the letter of the law so I've been doing some homework for this upcoming season. I've decided the best firearm to carry is probably a pump pellet rifle. If used correctly they are a great way of discouraging a stray dog without actually hurting it. On the other hand the .177 cal pellet is good for shooting small quarry for emergency rations like rabbit and squirrel and still legal within the small game hunting laws of Wisconsin. They are also relatively quiet and lightweight.
Granted these would be a joke in Moose country. |
Eventually, all things merge into one, and a river runs through it... |
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Fast E
USA
1858 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2006 : 2:01:23 PM
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| If this is the same Cliff that had to ask how to remove 'doggy poo' from his shoes i suggest you leave all dangerous firearms at home.lol's |
www.fastestreeperkennel.com |
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rebelgtp
USA
49 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2006 : 2:49:22 PM
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| I would say this would change greatly depending on where you are. Both for the local laws in that area, aswell as what you might run into while you are out there. i know in the northwest here my standards even just for camping are a lil .44 carbine and a .22 pistol |
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Wagonmaster
122 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2006 : 3:24:38 PM
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I can't speak to local law issues, but I can suggest that a pump pellet rifle would probably not be a very good idea for defense. Most of the pump pellet rifles fire at around 900-1100 feet per second, which is pretty fast. You will find if you shoot one at a tin can, it will go right through. Which means that if you use it to "discourage" a stray dog or other animal, you will put a pellet in the animal. Where that pellet goes will dictate whether the animal lives or dies, but in most places in the body cavity, it will die, it will just take some time. The moral of the story being that those pellets do not just whack them on the skin so they run off.
If you think you need a gun for defense against such an animal, then carry a real gun and use it if you intend to kill. A carbine or would be a good choice, in a caliber suitable to handle the animals you think you will encounter, or possibly a .22 in a short rifle. Am not sure about Wisconsin, but in Minnesota you can carry one of those, unloaded and in a case, just about anywhere. You could probably carry one on a sled if they do not consider that to be a "motor vehicle" (in which event it would need to be cased and unloaded.)
If you just want a gun that will whack an animal and not penetrate, buy one of those old Daisy lever action BB guns. Unless you hit something in the eye or at very close range, it will do what you seem to want, just sting it. But it will not ever help you if you really need a defense weapon and it is not suitable for small game. |
John Lunseth |
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Cliff Maxfield
USA
2438 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2006 : 3:37:45 PM
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Awe C'mon Eddie- be honest- how many times have you stepped in it. And then Maybe got funny looks at a cafe. Besides I got a variety of good and usable responses on that one which doesn't always happen with every thread. Well all but the dinner fork .
Anyway I like the idea of the red ryder. I've got one that's a step or two above that. I believe it's a Crossman. One pump and using a BB and it would probably bounce of anything. Three pumps and a pellet- that's a whole different deal. It could be deadly on small game. If I were going to Alaska or Canada I'd pack the .06. and I imagine that would still be marginal on a moose.
Ah Yes and that spawns another question I've had. The motor vehicle law. I understand why it has to be unloaded and in a case but what about other vehicles like mountain bikes and dog sleds. I heard of a case where a X country skier got fined in Wisconsin for actually skiing with a loaded .22 strapped to his back pack even though the safety was on and notheing was chambered. I guess it all depends on the circumstance and State. |
Eventually, all things merge into one, and a river runs through it... |
Edited by - Cliff Maxfield on 11/28/2006 3:47:48 PM |
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Wagonmaster
122 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2006 : 4:23:00 PM
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I would test any "pump up" gun, even a BB gun, by shooting a can, before using it on an animal. Anything more than about 5 or 600 fps will penetrate. See if it will put a hole in a can before aiming at any animal.
I don't know what WI law is. I doubt a sled would be considered a "motor vehicle" though, and I think the casing law applies to motor vehicles.
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John Lunseth |
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RSmith
USA
2402 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2006 : 5:23:20 PM
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If your looking to just DETER things you can get whats called a Wad Cutter. You can get them in pistol or rifle calibers. Basically, instead of capping the shell with a bullet, its capped with a plastic and/or cardboard type 'Wad'. you can fire it and wont lame anything, but it hurts like HELL and makes a pretty darn good NOISE.
Its similar to 'ye ole' rock salt loads! LOL
Advantages of 22's is you can buy blanks that wont hurt anyone, but still make SOME noise. they arent TOO awefully loud however.
Go with whatever is in the law first, and secondly go with something that makes a descent BANG!
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Roy Smith
Adirondack Kennel
Skandinavian Hounds
http://www.adirondackkennel.com |
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northwapiti
Canada
450 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2006 : 06:22:14 AM
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We had very good luck 'retraining' one of our neighbours pesky dogs with a paint ball gun.
Of course, we phoned the neighbour and got permission first.
Porkchop (I know, I'd be a pain if I had a name like that too) took 2 runs at the team that day and was met with 2 paint ball shots in the butt.
Haven't seen him since.
Karen
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Susan Evenden
Canada
677 Posts |
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penrod
150 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2006 : 10:11:09 AM
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You need a gun to scare off a stray dog??? I have all sorts of dogs take runs at my team, never had a huge incident, just scream at them. I used to carry a spray bottle to get the dog wet that worked.
Even a pellet gun?? The dog is just being a dog, hopefully you don't hit the poor dog in the eye and potentially blind it. I am not sure how you could train a team and correctly use the gun to discourage a stray dog. Those stray dogs are probably your neighbors pets, may not go over too well. Worse case scenario you hurt yourself or your own dog by carrying a loaded weapon. I am so glad we don't have the same gun laws as the States, makes for a safer world. Don't carry the gun you will definitely not get hurt |
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Wagonmaster
122 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2006 : 10:12:06 AM
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I apologize if I come off as the "contradictor of ideas" here, but projectiles are a hobby of mine so I probably know too much.
You need to take care with blanks. If you are firing a blank cartridge out of a standard pistol or rifle, that is, one with a hole in the barrel, the blank wad is still a projectile. It does indeed fall apart very quickly, and is not likely to hurt anything past 10 or 15 feet. But within that distance a blank wad can be as lethal as a lead bullet. There was a famous instance of a young movie actor a few years ago who was horsing around with a gun loaded with blanks on a set, shot himself in the head, and died.
Blanks fired out of a blank pistol, also called a starter pistol, would be a different deal. They have a solid barrel, just a metal rod with no hole in it, so the blank wad disperses on firing. You still would not want to fire that gun within a couple of feet of anything, the wad splinters could do damage although they would likely not be lethal.
I like the paint ball idea.
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John Lunseth |
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Erik
USA
163 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2006 : 10:25:26 AM
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| Careful Cliff, you'll shoot your eye out. Just don't keep the door open and the Bumpus hounds won't steal your Christmas turkey. |
Erik Torgerson |
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rbibber
USA
411 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2006 : 10:50:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by northwapiti
We had very good luck 'retraining' one of our neighbours pesky dogs with a paint ball gun.
Of course, we phoned the neighbour and got permission first.
Porkchop (I know, I'd be a pain if I had a name like that too) took 2 runs at the team that day and was met with 2 paint ball shots in the butt.
Haven't seen him since.
Karen
Hey Karen - ever tempted to use that paintball gun to paint the rear end of a misbehaving dog on your team?
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Rob Bibber
Vassalboro, Maine
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northwapiti
Canada
450 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2006 : 11:33:06 AM
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Can't say I have. For us to get the reaction from Porkchop we got, I'm sure it stung pretty good.
I will say too that we pass alot of farm dogs in each run - once we counted 30 on a 40 mile run - and usually it isn't a problem at all, even if they run at the dogs. However, Porkchop has had dog teams rolling by his doorstep for about 8 years. He's learned that my dogs will not retaliate, no matter what he does, and that has made him bolder and bolder over time. The last year or so he has been body slamming my leaders. Many of my young dogs - particularly my smaller females are scared of him. So it was time to take action.
The paintball gun seemed to be an answer that was going to deter, but not hurt him. I understand that he is just a dog doing 'dog things'.
Karen |
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Karal
USA
436 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2006 : 11:37:45 AM
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Years ago I had a dog follow my team home, about 10 miles. When I got home I put the dog in my garage and called animal control to come get him. (Animal control was use to coming to my house to collect stray dogs) The owner had to pay a fine to get the dog out of doggie jail, he didn't follow me again.
As long a the dog isn't nasty, which most are not, I don't care if they follow. If my dogs keep on running and ignore the dog, cool, it's all in training. I get more peeved if my dogs stop to socialize. (hmm paint ball gun ) |
live laugh love |
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swanny
USA
641 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2006 : 12:01:16 PM
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A can of pepper spray (the strength sold as bear spray) will convince most strays to leave your team alone. Heck, it will also convince most humans to leave you and your team alone. It might even work on bears.
If you need emergency rations I'd recommend a 12 guage shotgun. Heck, you can get 12 gauge rounds with 'rubber' projectiles that will discourage the stray dogs, too.
For a while one of my jobs was to haze bears away from buildings and trash cans. To that end, my employer handed me a 12 gauge shotgun, told me to "shoot the bears, but don't hurt them." - How's THAT for clear instructions!!!!
We used rubber bullets for that job and the result was an interesting bit of classical conditioning. Every time we'd get called to haze bears from the dumpsters we'd show up in a marked patrol rig. The bears were so used to the drill that when they saw the patrol car they'd get that "Aw heck, here we go again!" look on their faces, turn turn their butts to us so we could shoot them, and then just keep on a diggin' through the trash. I guess they figured a sore butt was the price of an easy meal.
Swanny
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“A good dog is so much a nobler beast than an indifferent man that one sometimes gladly exchanges the society of one for that of the other.” William Francis Butler
http://www.tworiversak.com/mushing.htm |
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The Ideal gun to carry.... revisited
