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 Breeding for "Grande Odyssée" race

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T O P I C    R E V I E W
JuBu Posted - 03/10/2012 : 5:57:58 PM
Hello, I'm Julien, from France,

I would like to build my own team with the dream to race the "Grande Odyssée" in France. I plan to buy dogs in Canada or Alaska I don't know yet what choice to do for my breeding and what kennels I have to visit. I plan to buy two females for starting and to breed them with a stud.
This is a specific stage race, with 30 000 meters positive change in altitude.

The stages are:
1rst day: 39 miles
2nd day: 49 miles
3rd day: 32 miles
4rth day: 37 miles
5th day: 37 miles
6th day: 31 miles
7th day: 37 miles
8th day: 53 miles
9th day: 50 miles
10th day: 47 miles
11th day: 53 miles

The teams are pretty fast: http://www.grandeodyssee.com/en/478/2012-Edition

Mushers can have 14 dogs for the race and use 8 or 10 dogs per stage.
I need fast dogs, with a good endurance, a good recovery capacity. I also wonder wich size of dogs could be nice for this race.
But there is not a lot of north american mushers competing on this race, so no reference for me.
What bloodlines from which kennels could be good for my project?
Thanks for your advices.

Julien.
15   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
Indrek Posted - 09/24/2014 : 1:29:04 PM
Qw i think that someone is running Doug's line dogs in LGO. Cant now remember who the guys was but he had swingley lines in there.
But still..top three more ore less have Streepeer backround dogs. Houndier type of dogs.
And about lines..i do think its more about the individual dog that you select. Some LD dogs are burning too hot for ld..and do good in MD etc. And to what you breed. A lot of people in this side of the world belive breeding a LD dog to a sprint dog(longer sprints..about 20-30km) makes real good stage race dogs. People have done it and cant say that they are not delivering it.
qw Posted - 09/18/2014 : 2:01:00 PM
I certainly took no offense to basically being called an idiot here. However I find it interesting to point out the only team to beat the Streepers in stage racing did it with a front end consisting mostly of swingley, buser, king lines. Another hugely successful small kennel at stage stop the past several years, did it in large part genetically from a Elmer and dagger line bred cross. Now call me an idiot for suggesting buser lines might do ok at an event with more stages than stage stop?
northenough Posted - 03/19/2012 : 5:11:48 PM
quote:
It sure seems like a longshot somebody could breed a line of dogs anymore capable of winning ONAC and Iditarod.


Yep, I think you're right. Specialization is a two-sided sword. It can make you successful in one format, but limit you in another. Master of one, jack-of-all in none. Make sure you know exactly what your goals are as you select dogs/lines.

I'd still like my serum delivered by a top Iditarod team.

There was talk at one time that Buddy would attempt the Irod. And remember Roxy's attempts. There's also a lot of truth to the crossover being possible, but lot's of evidence that slightly different dogs would be used. Pretty obvious I guess.

Inverse is the long distance teams trying the open class sprints. See some results. Hendricks in this year's ONAC for ex., or Goosen or Holdman/Anderson in previous years.

It seems to be all on an X/Y graph of speed/distance.
Riverwind Posted - 03/19/2012 : 3:27:12 PM
Why not consider breeding to Emil Inauens dogs? I think it would be hard to find dogs that have proven themselves more in that exact race, than Emils dogs.
Just a thought as far as breeding after you buy your females. (Which is a fantastic way to get started by the way!)

Cheers, Barry
qw Posted - 03/19/2012 : 12:50:33 PM
I am not an expert on any format, however one obvious point we all may have forgotten is what other formats(other than stage racing) a person might be interested in racing. If a person was going to do sprint and stage the streeper type lines might be the best option(or Levitski lines for my purebreed friends). If a person was doing more distance type racing along with stage racing I think the swingley or buser type huskies would be the obvious choice. It sure seems like a longshot somebody could breed a line of dogs anymore capable of winning ONAC and Iditarod.
northenough Posted - 03/18/2012 : 2:04:15 PM
Look, it's no big secret: go to the proven lines. But, use that only for a starting point because that alone will not guarantee success. Proven for what? Who are the performers of that line, but who are the producers if you want to breed? Big difference, and you're better off w/ a proven producer than a champion if you breed. Absolutely important to remember is that dogs with the same pedigree do not have the same genes!

Chad, all "poking fun" aside, my advice was not to as a rule go out and buy Streeper dogs or anyone's dogs in particular. That's not the point. And, thank you, I actually have taken my own advice, which is "be smart with your breeding". My wife and I have averaged only a little over one litter a year (9 puppies) of dogs with a closed gene pool. We've learned by necessity to become better breeders. We like the dogs we work with and enjoy that extra challenge. The game's the same in mixed breeds anyway, just at another level. We have become very good at it. Why else can we go to the races and beat most of you people that have no restrictions to your breeding or buying except maybe your budget? For us, we can no longer go out and buy dogs that are as good as ours, let alone better. A Siberian thing. So, any of you guys want to try that breeding program with all the restrictions? I didn't think so.

Another thing: we've noticed (ouch!) that the last 5-7 years our races here in the Midwest have jumped to another level of competition. Teams have gotten a little better, but mostly there are just more of those good teams. A lot of teams we used to beat are up there battling for the top. Why? Better dogs and more of'em. From where? Some from local, small kennel breeding programs, but mostly from buying dogs from bigger kennels. A lot of mushers I know have tried to breed their own teams and have subsequently thrown in the towel when few to none of the pups make their team. Most bought big name dogs and bred them, some took their own female to a well-known stud. Very mixed results, though there are a few very good teams comprised of their own pups. I have seen people making the same mistakes as we made as we tried to improve our own Siberians through the years.

My advice is in the spirit of helping people to save time, effort, and money, and to avoid disappointment and heartache. Just trying to help.

Mark
jake Posted - 03/16/2012 : 8:20:45 PM
Hi Julien

You may need to get her a team too !
JuBu Posted - 03/16/2012 : 3:21:34 PM
Thanks a lot Jake, it won't be hard for me to work with this dogs, it will be hard for my wife not to see me enough! I keep you informed of my choices.
jake Posted - 03/16/2012 : 2:02:11 PM
Good luck on your buying Julien, I think you will be off to a good start on your team. To do that race competitively is going to take a lot of work, but it sure looks like its worth it just to do well in it. Let us know please how you make out in the various stages.
JuBu Posted - 03/16/2012 : 12:54:30 PM
Thanks everybody for your advices and opinions. Sorry not to have replied before, I just did a long trip to France for holidays.
I think I will begin with my first idea of buying two Streeper females and to find a good stage race's' stud to breed them.
I'm maybe wrong, I'm maybe right, that's the game in mushing and breeding.
I plan to start breeding between 6 months and 1 year. I think this project will take me at least 5 or 6 years, if I'm lucky and serious. Time for the puppies to grow, and time for them and me to get experience. I plan to do mid distance races at the beginning, and maybe after to the trophies around the "Grande Odyssée" where some mushers just do a few stage of the Odyssey.
Thanks again to take the time to reply.
jake Posted - 03/16/2012 : 09:06:29 AM
Julien

I am wondering, how long are you thinking it will take you for this project?

Are you looking for some dogs to make you competitive or a full breeding program? Either can take some time. I think it is well worth doing both paths.
Sniper Posted - 03/15/2012 : 11:08:49 PM
The top team in Wyoming Stage race was Buddy, third team was John Stewart driving Streeper's second team and the fourth place team Brent Beck was made up mostly of dogs he has purchased from Streepers. So 64 dogs top 4 teams 44 came from Streepers. Team 6 and 7 both had dogs on their team from Streepers as well.
SKIJOR#1 Posted - 03/15/2012 : 8:54:52 PM
QW, Tell us all what kind of dogs you feel can get you to the finish line the fastest?
qw Posted - 03/15/2012 : 5:42:37 PM
I am not going to get into an argument, I am sure Terry and Buddy would do great in that race. That doesn't mean the rest of us novices would do great with those same lines or dogs. I know what kind of dog I could get to the finish line the fastest, and for each musher the style of dog might be a little different.
RSmith Posted - 03/15/2012 : 4:24:47 PM
Jake your last statement says it all.

" As I said, look at the top 4 finishers of the Stagestop for a stud and/or breeders and it'd be hard to go wrong "


ALso, what about dogs like Pluto, Hop - Sailor, Ginger, Horse, those lines seem very prevalent in Stage and sprint across the board in top teams. The base of Doug S.'s kennel is all Gareth Wright dogs seems but I am not sure his IROD teams?

Certain breedings "click" and a lot of Ellis hound lines X to the above lines seem to. Among others of course, but I guess my point is there IS some common themes that cross well together for what you want to do and it is not hard to figure out which lines do so why not just ROLL WITH THAT?
I can almost guarantee (lets say 95% confidence interval) that Terry and Buddy's lines will go an WIN 11 days in hills or flats.
So study those lines, there is no secrets out there.

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