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T O P I C    R E V I E W
cricket Posted - 05/03/2008 : 1:20:54 PM
can some one please explain to me how this is accomplished

i mean is it daughter to grandpa or what
15   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
MRoback Posted - 09/28/2017 : 09:28:51 AM
I just went through about ten of streepers peds and there was much evidence of linebreeding there


quote:
Originally posted by Jessica Doherty

Ok, I figure I'll chime in since I like to study this stuff and used to put a fair amount of time into it.

I have studied Streepers lines and breedings, as well as many other kennels and lines, both in NA and Europe, and here are few things that stand out.

1. The practical application of successfully breeding to improve high performance dogs does not always correlate to what you read in genetics books, or to what works for breeders of purebred lines.

One note that seems to be very relavant is that some individuals are superior producers, and some particular crosses just mesh very well and give great results.
Some examples of superior World Class producers off the top of my head *Note, all of these dogs are outcrosses
1. Mike
2. Labben
3. Mimi
4. Pride
5. Sissel (1/2 EP, 1/2 GSP)
6. Odin
7. Lonley
8. Victor
9. Sailor
10. Drops III
11. Hop
A few notable crosses - all except 1 are outcrosses(sorry, I don't study the distance dogs)
1. Mike X Lakris (Odins sister)
2. Odin x Mikes sisters
3. Mike x Candy
4. TrittxMimi
5. TimmiexLonley - linebred 1 time
6. DropsxKeo (H Ingebrigtsen)
7. ChuckxSissel (greysters - Sissel was linebred)
8. HopxHallon

1. I have not seen really any linebreeding in Streepers kennel as far as I can tell. Only one litter that I can remember that is linebred really is Erin xPride, and they are probably a bit too young to tell much.
2. For Egils main teams, other than the last few years, all were outcrosses. Not just outcrosses themselves, but parents were also outcrosses. (Labben was a 1/2 EP outcross, Mike and his sisters were 1/2 GSP outcrosses) Labbens offspring Odin & Vesla, siblings, were repeated bred to Mike and his sisters - outcross to outcross, the husky lines in those dogs were also unrelated. Over the last few years, Egil has been line breeding successfully on the GSP part of the line. i.e TimmiexLonely (Mike and Timme are related as their mothers are sisters) as well as a few other similar crosses of this nature. It will be interesting to see the results more linebreeding in his kennel. BUT, this is literally the first generation of linebreeding in those pedigrees.
3. Ross Saunderson has more linebreeding in some of his dogs than most of the other open class sprint kennels that I have seen, take a look at his dogtec site.
4. Just because someone has a "line" or calls it their "line," does not mean it was linebred. For example, Lou Serres' Lourohounds 1/2 Polish Greyhound to Alaskan, Egils Mike line, the Labben line, Streepers Horse line, Marianne Norheims Greyster lines, Lena Boysens Greyster lines - all of these "lines" are not linebred, but based on a superior producer or specific cross that produced superior dogs. None of these "lines" were created by linebreeding.
Frankly, the only real line breeding I have seen is the Czech greyster lines and some in dogs of Ross Saunderson .
4. I haven't seen many inbreedings (brother-sister, father-daughter, mother-son) that produced a known superstar, but I have seen several pedigrees of SUPERSTAR dogs where one of the parents was either inbred or linebred.

It would be really interesting to hear from some of the folks that we talk about above - long time, world-class breeders.............

Jessica Doherty



RSmith Posted - 04/25/2013 : 6:04:10 PM
Not sure Norm, possibly Ed Clifford or Sara Vanderwood could have linebred that line.
I owned Willie here (Texas X Marte) but had problems with seizures in Willies offspring but not certain which side it came from. Bred to Cocoa (who has had 2 litters for me none of which had the seizures).
nwalek Posted - 04/25/2013 : 10:14:11 AM
Are there any examples of matings with Marthe
http://www.stamtavla.no/remotedogdetail.asp?dogid=13952
on both the dam side and sire side?
Trannyman Posted - 05/20/2008 : 11:26:28 AM
Greg, Right on, my point is put the skills up there then breed the best dogs thats what Terry does, Ellis does too! Both will outcross gsp,english pointer etc.. Always top Alaskan Husky blood somewhere close.Egill is breeding husky back in now just an FYI! That's the diffirence with racing dogs verus dog shows it's what place you finish. Lots of people have bred to Mike, Odin, Hop etc.. Same guys are tough to beat, Kenny is basing alot on his own quote line and doing very well, coming on strong, more than breeding. Lots of copycat breeding out there with limited success, not a bad place to start foresure but everyone has to look at the whole picture! Goodday
SharkyX Posted - 05/20/2008 : 07:48:34 AM
quote:
Originally posted by krakenrsh

Tim (SharkyX),
Your analogies have many holes and inaccuracies.

Paul



Likely because I'm trying to recall some information I heard in a film about 10 months ago.
GregB Posted - 05/19/2008 : 6:40:40 PM
Tranny-

Agreed, you need excellent skills in all areas to make it to the top. BUT, you can't be successful without excellent dogs. And that's what this topic is about, how to breed excellent dogs. Just my 2C.

Greg
Trannyman Posted - 05/19/2008 : 3:31:21 PM
You admitt not always being able to get there full potential. The consitent top guys&gals do get that year after year that is a huge advantage over everone else whether you want to believe that or not. I'm not saying it's fun getting beat or putting in effort with no results is fun. I am saying those Top people put themselves there with great effort and ability and thats true in any sport!
sublunar Posted - 05/19/2008 : 12:20:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Trannyman
Sure it's fun comparing all those fun facts about lines but that's all it is.



Couldn't disagree more. I've been working for years to breed superior athletes (although I'll be the first to admit I haven't always succeeded or been able to train them to their potential). Understanding how other folks are getting there is like having a blue-print laid out in front of you, influences your decisions, guides your moves.

In my mind breeding is a high-stakes gamble, where the dogs often pay the price for the breeders failure. It's crucial to come to the table with every bit of information you can. Fun, sure. Only fun, not at all.
Trannyman Posted - 05/19/2008 : 10:15:48 AM
The point I have made is when your as good as the guys at the top every dog they breed to is proven in there yard doing the type of racing they do at the top level. so great dogs are bred to great dogs trained,fed,raced,conditioned etc...by great dog mushers for the best results. So if you sit at home and think about it you want to be as good or better than the best sure you need to breed quality dogs but you have to go and work on alot of other things too.Bottomline a top bred dog linebred crossbred etc.. Don't matter unless you put all the rest of it together. The value of a dog from the top kennels is more than the bloodline, it's the fact that the dog was(is) running for that top kennel. Nothing else matters in the end. Sure it's fun comparing all those fun facts about lines but that's all it is.
qw Posted - 05/18/2008 : 11:37:21 AM
From the pedigrees I have seen it doesn't seem like Doug or any other recent Iditarod champion have very many highly linebred dogs on their championship teams with the exception maybe of Buser. Same with golden harness winners, of the pedigrees I've seen almost all are not bred real tight.
Chad S.
krakenrsh Posted - 05/18/2008 : 11:34:35 AM
Warren,
Doug Swingley is a great example. He has been refining his genetics and breeding patterns since his early days breeding rabbits.
Paul
Trannyman Posted - 05/18/2008 : 08:03:08 AM
Hi, Folks great topic, fun to look at all these top mushers and what they do in there breeding programs. Streepers can sell a top dog off there team and not miss a beat, cause they have so many just like that dog waiting for a chance to shine. They drive all over the country racing in many diffirent places living out of the truck with 40 plus dogs all capable of winning every race. Ellis also very successful, don't sell his very top dogs smaller numbers make his truck but he does not travel outside Alaska? Streepers compete in everyones backyard, they stick there necks out there year after year. Both of these kennels are incrediable, goes without saying. Do you think they are just a little bit better dog people then the rest of us? Everyone has quality dogs at the top, just putting it all together at the right time is the key to success, the guys or gals that do that will always be the best. I think there are a few more guys that are right there too, it takes alot to be at that open team level, way beyond breeding great dogs, it's the whole package. We all watch everyone's breedings copy them if we see success but there is a whole lot more to it. The best in the sport are more than great dog breeders, it's management skills,putting all parts together on race day. Goodluck
northernstar Posted - 05/17/2008 : 8:06:12 PM
Two words for you...
Doug Swingley.



Warren
RSmith Posted - 05/16/2008 : 8:58:12 PM
Also just a note (observation I guess), that just because sucessful mushers may be outcrossing, they MOST DEFINITITELY are looking and seeking certain TRAITS that DO transfer in the genes outcross OR line bred! Its a crapshoot yes, but certain traits that folks are looking for ARE most definitely seen when bred together regardless. (tallness, fur, black pads, tough feet,etc,etc,)
And, like Jess mentions certain genetic 'codes' (hidden or otherwise) may 'click' or bind together when bred together producing super dogs and there is DEFINITELY patterns to whats producing top athletes and numbers (lines and crosses) if you look hard enough.
GregB Posted - 05/16/2008 : 4:17:46 PM
Thanks all for your contributions to the continuation of this discussion. Much to contemplate and research further, at least for my self education.

Al, when I use the term hybrid vigor, I am referring to changing shape. This may be by error but it is how I've seen the term used over the years, which also may be erroneous.

Jess, I think that's exactly what I'm talking about. That practice and practical results are very different than what science has learned..... On the other hand, as you suggest, there is much outcrossing happening outside of the purebred world. And for me that's why this is so confusing. But perhaps the strategy is (for non-purebreeds) you change the shape (outcross or mildly linebreed) until you are satisfied with what you have and then refine things by linebreeding. Shear conjecture here, but maybe Egil has found what he likes and is now trying to go about identifying genetic weaknesses in his kennel and setting traits. And that now he is ready to linebreed more, now, to get there.

Greg

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