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 De-worming products/advice from Dr. Vanek

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T O P I C    R E V I E W
PIPPINS28 Posted - 06/02/2004 : 8:02:39 PM
Has anyone ever heard of using a wormer called "Atgard" a swine wormer I believe,comes in a packet with blue crystals?

PIPPINS28
15   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
kissAnew Posted - 04/01/2016 : 11:48:37 PM
Dr Jerry So personable yet professional & informative. I enjoy your posts Sir. Loaded with info. Kinda makes my head spin. Kind of a different language but I gettin at gettin ya. I agree with magali"/\..way cool.".
I personally use older methods but all knowledge is useful and I see where some of "the new" may be easier.
Please keep it up with the sharing. Thank you
RSmith Posted - 05/01/2012 : 11:16:24 AM
Those numbers sound about right to try and keep the Whips down if you have a problem. I just give it to my dogs 1X every Month and my vet says that's fine. It's awfully tough to completely eradicate you kennel.
I do the 3days and again 3 weeks later routine a couple times per year though just because. lol

Just remember were dealing with Canines here (not goats, swine or horses) and the dose is 50 migs per kig would be 1,150ml (11.5ml) ( in 10% form ) for a 23Kg dog.
n/a Posted - 05/01/2012 : 10:30:39 AM
Here's a link I found to a site with Fenbendazole for about $20:

http://www.bigdweb.com/prodinfo.asp?number=1850G

Is it safe to administer fenbendazole 1x/month as a precaution? My vet said the standard dosage for panacur would be 1x/day for 3 days and 1x again 1 day in 3 weeks.

My plan is to administer dosage per bottle directions to my now 75lb. Labrador or to administer for 3 days and then 1x/month thereafter depending on what I find out. I'm suspecting he has giardia or whipwom (whipwom would be the vet's suspision based on symptoms) because after 5 weeks on a diet for sensitive stomachs and after a fecal test, a treatment for tapeworm and a round of metronidazole, my dog still has (slightly less)watery diarrhea and is still losing weight.

(He likes to swim, so we do in-water fetching in various ponds about 3x/week and he sneaks the occasional goose poop (eeeuw!) snack)
PIPPINS28 Posted - 07/09/2004 : 7:27:56 PM
Will Atgard also kill tapeworms in dogs?

PIPPINS28
joca Posted - 06/29/2004 : 12:37:18 AM
I should point out, both times we saw evidence of worms it was in litters out of bitches we brought down from Alaska. They and their pups seemed to carry a heavier load than dogs acquired elsewhere.

Edited by - joca on 06/29/2004 12:45:08 AM
joca Posted - 06/29/2004 : 12:32:54 AM
Here are a couple of sites: photos/descriptions of parasites.

Parasites and Parasitic Diseases of Domestic Animals

http://cal.vet.upenn.edu/merial
http://www.biosci.ohio-state.edu/~parasite/home.html
see also pets and people link at this site.

Edited by - joca on 06/29/2004 09:14:52 AM
joca Posted - 06/29/2004 : 12:15:37 AM
Re: deworming pregnant bitches


Here's some info I found online at the CDC site.

"While it has long been recognized that transplacental and transmammary infection of ascarids and hookworms could be prevented through prophylactic treatment of pregnant dogs, no drugs are currently approved for this use.  However, the effectiveness of this approach with different drugs approved for parasite control in dogs has been well documented.  Daily treatment of pregnant dogs with fenbendazole from the 40th day of gestation through the 14th day of lactation has been shown to inhibit T. canis larvae in tissues, thereby preventing or greatly reducing the incidence of infection in puppies.19   Alternatively, studies have shown that treatment with ivermectin on day 0, 30, 60 of gestation and 10 days post whelping, reduced the adult T. canis worm burden in pups by 100% and prevented the shedding of eggs.20   In yet another study, treatment with selamectin at 10 and 40 days both before and after parturition was effective in reducing T. canis fecal egg counts in both pups and their dams, and adult worms in the pups.21  "

The article can be found at
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dpd/parasites/ascaris/prevention.htm

Jo



Edited by - joca on 06/30/2004 11:43:27 PM
tdog Posted - 06/27/2004 : 12:16:38 PM
Guru question: How soon after whelping can mom get dewormed. (also how far into pregnancy is it safe. I read about the 50 day panacur trial above, but timewise is that recommended) Obviously after weaning it doesn't matter. Assume panacure or strongid.

Dr. Jerry Vanek Posted - 06/27/2004 : 09:01:35 AM
Magali,

Regarding deworming programs: As I said, they vary greatly by geography and personal lifestyles and goals. Right now, I am debating whether I should discuss deworming based on worms or on geography or by drug type.

I'll come up with something.

Dominique is a good friend (as are so many sled dog veterinarians). I have known him for many years. We served on the ISDVMA board together, were co-chairs of the ISDVMA meeting in Reims, went whale watching in the Atlantic together, and were veterinarians for the IFSS world championships in Lake Placid.

Lately, we have not seen much of each other, though. Hopefully, he can join us in Anchorage, September 15 - 17, for the 10th anniversary ISDVMA meeting and symposium at the Captain Cook Hotel (sneaky advertisement).

Time is the greatest distance between two people.



magali Posted - 06/27/2004 : 01:30:24 AM
Dr Vanek,

In Fairbanks there is vet and good one but the price for advice is very high... but we "all" use the Bush vet for surgery like spays etc...
I personnaly go to Val Stuve for any emergency... The Bush vet isn't available all the time... And not always reliable for appointments.... (But like everybody I rather 80$ for a neuter than 280$ in town...)

Like you said there is no "magic" receipe since we all live in different area and expose our dogs to different things...
Thank you for your advice.

Thanks for coming on this forum... this is WAY COOL...

PS:
Just to let you know now I can put a face on your name, Dominique has a book with your picture in it.... I guess you know each other...


Magali PHILIP, Nenana, AK
www.noatak.com
Dr. Jerry Vanek Posted - 06/26/2004 : 08:48:15 AM
Matgali,

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I have to be careful not to let this chat line eat up my life. (Stepehen King's next novel will be about a parasitologist being parasitized by his own computer.)

I will discuss some deworming schedules in the near future, but I will be somewhat vague on purpose (see my latest response in the Tylan bracket). I am fearful of saying something specific that suddenly everyone is doing when it may not be approriate for everyone.

I can't, and won't, stop encouraging every musher to develop a strong relationship with a local veterinarian, even if it means taking the time, and a good stiff drink, to educate him or her about your own special and unique kennel circumstances. This takes patience and time, and unfortunately, money, but it pays off in the end.

I would rather a musher takes my thoughts to their own veterinarian with the question, "Will this work in my case?" then simply do what I say only to have your personal veterinarian find out and despair, "That idiot Vanek doesn't know we don't even have goober worms here in Florida!"

I've been burnt too many times and it's made me old and cranky.

Stay tuned

magali Posted - 06/26/2004 : 12:22:54 AM
Dr Vanek,
I just wanted to say that when we decide to use "cattle wormer" we e-mail the product info and percentage to the National Vet school in Alfort and then Dominique ,send us how much and how often to use it...
sometimes using the cattle wormer isn't cheap but like you said we want to use variaty of wormer ...... My husband (former MD) is like you he keeps on telling me they don't need to be wormed every month or so ...
but he knows better than to argue with me... When we came back from Russia after feeding raw frozen fish we used ALBENZADOLE to treat for Tenias.

Except few ascaris I found in puppy stool, I never had a "worm" problems in our adult dogs...
I do beleive it is because we take good care of them, the kennel is clean (poop wise) and the ground is drained (south slope).

We do'nt feed fish (orgame meat or game bones) at all so We are not worried about Tenia too much


Would you have a EXAMPLE of worming schedule for a keenle who start training in august, then go to races in January through March...
a simple liost of which wormer you would recommend to use and when in the year...

THANKS A LOT FOR YOUR PARTICIPATION IN THIS FORUM



Magali PHILIP, Nenana, AK
www.noatak.com
Admin Posted - 06/25/2004 : 5:10:42 PM
Jerry, we really appreciate you sharing your knowledge on "deworming" with us (I have now added a new word to my vocabulary).

Because the topic has grown beyond Atgaard, I've renamed the topic to better cover the content.

Judy Bergemann
Dr. Jerry Vanek Posted - 06/25/2004 : 10:01:22 AM
If the following insults one’s intelligence, then please accept my sincerest apologies in advance.

It occurs to me that some mushers could be calculating the dosages of the bulk livestock dewormers they’re purchasing at feed stores based on the entire contents of the container, rather than the percentage of active drug in the box.

If that is the case, then the dogs are being significantly underdosed.

For instance, the Panacur paste for horses contains 25 grams of Panacur. But, that paste contains only ten per cent or 2.5 grams of fenbendazole, the active ingredient. If a musher calculates the dosage per dog based on 25 grams of fenbendazole in the tube then each dog will get only 1/10th of the appropriate dose. No wonder worms continue to be a problem for many mushers. A fifty-pound dog should get 1.136 grams of fenbendazole each of three days in a row (50 milligrams of active drug per kilogram body weight). This would require almost one and a half tubes of horse de-wormer for one dog over a three-day period. If a musher thinks there’s 25 grams of fenbendazole in the tube (instead of 2.5) he will treat 7 dogs three times each and think he’s saving money, but the dogs will not be de-wormed. Or worse, only the weakest worms will die, leaving the hunks to survive and reproduce.

The reason a dog requires so much of the horse de-wormer is that horses are dosed at 1/10th the dose. Dogs need 50 milligrams per kilogram body weight while horses and cattle are dosed at 5 milligrams per kilogram body weight. Thus, an 1100-pound horse and a 110-pound dog would each consume a whole tube of horse Panacur, while a 55-pound dog would require half of that same tube.

Panacur granules that come in a bottle contain 22.2% active fenbendazole, or about 1/5th concentration. Similarly, if a musher calculates the de-wormer dose based on the 1-pound (454-gram) weight of the bottle, the dogs will be under-dosed by five times. Remember that a 1-pound bottle of 22.2% Panacur only holds 101 grams of active fenbendazole. A one-pound bottle will dose roughly 30 50-pound dogs three times each. If a dog weighs only 37 pounds, then 40 of them could be dosed three times each from a bottle, as another musher previously described.

All other drugs should be approached the same way. Read the label, or ask the sales-dweeb-person (at your own risk!!), or go on-line to the manufacturer, or call them directly, to find out the actual concentration of active drug in the carrier. Seriously under-dosing your dogs will not only leave them infected, it will select for super bugs.

Best yet, sit down with your local veterinarian and design a customized Integrated Pest Management System for your specific kennel. It will be money well-invested in the long run.

Happy tails…


mikiyuk Posted - 06/25/2004 : 02:12:58 AM
Previously I used this wormer Telmin KH, but now I use Synanthic, it less expensive and in my opinion so good as telmin kh.

du fur rendez vous kennel.france.


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